Will New York state attorney general Letitia James really try to seize a half-billion dollars in Trump's assets as punishment for a non-existent crime?
I work in the banking industry and have dealt with many people just like Trump. They all put blue sky in their financial statements. But you know what the financial statements is the owners estimate of what his assets are worth. It’s not the banks estimate it’s not the accountant estimate it’s not the lawyer estimate it’s nobody’s estimate except the owners. The bank does their own analysis things like does he actually own what he claims. Yes that can be documented and what do we think those assets are worth if they had to be sold We then make our decision based upon our own analysis of all of those facts. Fraud would be claiming he owns assets that he doesn’t actually own. Fraud isn’t saying I think property X is worth 10 million and the banker thinks it’s only 7 million. The decision is wrong and the judge should be disbarred for making it. The punishment violates the 8 th amendment against excessive fines. The fact that no court in NY hasn’t step up and stopped this is terrifying.
Yes! So how is Trump's evaluation/alleged exaggeration even remotely relevant when the bank made and relied upon its own evaluation (as I'm sure it was required from a regulatory standpoint to do)?? I keep hearing the argument that Trump secured a better loan rate for himself by his alleged misrepresentations AND that this harmed the public because others were deprived of loans at an equivalent rate (only so much in proceeds available at that rate, I suppose is the argument). But again it would seem that the rate Trump got was determined by the bank's valuation, not Trump's. So now we have partisan AGs campaigning on punishing political enemies and roaming their jurisdictions for lies, old and new, that they can use to accomplish that end. No one is safe. You might not be wealthy, campaigning for public office or otherwise look like a potential target. But if you say something that a powerful person doesn't like, and if that powerful person prevails upon his or her government cronies to regard your statements as false, misleading or otherwise harmful, look out.
The rate is driven by the banks desire for the business and it’s perception of the overall risk At the level someone like Trump plays at they can almost dictate the rate to the bank as there will be many other lenders willing to do the deal so Trump can get the banks to actually bid for the loan. Again the judge wrongly decided the case based upon the facts just as the AG wrongly prosecuted based upon the facts. That no appellate court will stand up and stop this miscarriage of justice is the scary part.
And the everyday Joe is believing what they are hearing. Does anyone know what the loan terms were? Did Trump's organization say their asset was worth $300M, the bank's loan officers, based on appraisal, think it is only worth $280M. But what if he was asking for a loan of $100M for improvements? At that point, his organization's valuation is not relevant as he may have been only asking for a 1/3 of the bank assessed value of the assets. I have not read through any of the court documents (if NY State hasn't buried them somewhere) so no one really knows, unless they sat in that courtroom for the entire trial. Obfuscating the evidence so the public does not have access to the details of these loan agreements makes it easy for the judges to tell their own story and make up law to suit their political purposes..
and yet on a recent breaking points, Crystal Ball said that this happens to ordinary people all the time- their salaries are garnished because they failed to pay their taxes or their assets are seized because they skipped their child support payments. she entirely missed the point that Trump paid off the loans. the loan with interest was satisfied. there was NO crime.
i am amazed at some of the facebook memes posted by people i actually know who i used to think, pre-covid, were fairly intelligent. "he's supposed to be a multi-billionaire but he can't come up with a measly 1/2 billion?" come on! surely these people know the difference between net worth and actual cash on hand in the bank!! wasn't that always the joke about royalty? that they never had any real money to pay their tailors? or that scene in The American President where Andrew Shepherd can't buy flowers for Sydney Wade because his personal credit cards are locked up?
on paper, i'm worth much more than i have in the bank. sure, i suppose if i had to raise 400 grand, i could sell the house i live in for what i paid for it in 2002- $400,000. never mind that it's currently "worth" around $2 million. it doesn't have any more bedrooms or square footage than it did in 2002. but then, where would i live? where would i store my furniture?
this crazy AG is so hell bent on destroying Trump that she's willing to take NY down with him. why would anyone ever risk doing business there again? between the insane governor wanting to quarantine you without due process if you so much as sneeze and the AG willing to break any law or make some up to get Trump on any charge or no charge, all the illegal (yes, i used the word) migrants flooding the city, the museums apologizing for their "appropriated" or dead white guy art, the broadway shows pandering to the lowest possible audiences and marshall law on the subways, there is no point to living there any longer.
I also worked in the lending industry. No bank bases its decision to secure a loan with assets whose value is determined by the applicant. Trump was singled out because he's a threat to the corrupt establishment, not because any sane person actually thinks this is a crime.
As Dan Bongino says “republicans aren’t necessarily the solution to your problems, but democrats are definitely the cause of all your problems”. We’re kind of screwed but will definitely lose EVERYTHING if the democrats maintain power. And I don’t believe the actual tyrants are going to let go of power.
Well I guess I respectfully disagree that it's obvious to enough people. It seems like most people that disagree with what the Democrats are doing seem to think that while the Republicans are not doing us any favors, they aren't as bad as the Democrats. In my opinion, if you look at the biggest problems facing our country, most of the Republicans are equally to blame. Even worse, the Republicans don't have to take responsibility when they can also pretend that the Democrats are doing it all. All they have to do is make a cute quote at a congressional hearing and they get a pass. As to what we should do..
I'm not smart enough to know many of the answers, but I do think we start by not giving the majority of the Republicans a pass by making them think we believe they are better than the Democrats. As long as they can convince most conservatives that the Democrats are the bad guys, they can keep quietly destroying the country with no accountability.
How many cases of Republicans running a show trial can you cite? Have they shut someone’s business down and stolen 500 million dollars with no victim? New York City is run by leftists, what is any Republican who happens to do business supposed to do, speak up and have it done to them? In Georgia his staff and lawyers are under an indictment for racketeering? Would you be willing to represent him? Perhaps get a bogus indictment just for representing your client in court. People need to wake the fuck up. This is banana republic, fascist shit
You think Republicans aren't (quietly) supporting or even participating in just about everything on your list? How many years have Republicans had enough power to make the right decisions to prevent virtually everything on your list from happening? Republicans were front and center in all of the Covid overreach, at least equally responsbile for big tech destroying the country, deserve significant blame for Jan 6 outcome, deserve significant blame for what is happening to Trump, responsible for much of the deficit, at least equally responsible for the wars, equally responsibile for big pharma corruption, equally responsible for companies llike Blackrock and Vanguard destroying the country, and on and on. At some point we do need to wake up and realize who needs enemies with friends like these.
The graft and corruption in our political elites is so deep and pervasive that a single election will not solve it, and we can't expect it to. However, one thing is clear: The lawless Democrats must first be voted out as soon as possible so they can't continue with their current America-destroying agenda. Next, hopefully enough people are now aware of what has been going on that they will pay close attention and systematically vote out people who are part of all this...both parties included. It will be a slow process and can't be done all at once. And we the public cannot become complacent again and ignore what our political class is doing. The last few years have seen the curtain pulled back and we can't un-see what we have seen. Increasingly these people both elected and unelected have to be held accountable, if by nothing else, by voting them out of office over and over. And by voting in people who will get rid of the unelected deep state players.
As a person who lives in the one party state of California, I can attest that this is NOT a good situation. You absolutely must must have opposition and discussion of ideas. Americans need to be strategic about their votes, and sometimes need to hold their noses and vote for someone they don't completely like in order to restore more balance of power. The presidency and both houses of Congress simply should not be controlled by a single party. There needs to be at least ONE branch of Congress with the ability to apply brakes here and there. I guarantee that Americans would not like a one party country to match what we have in California. And if you do think it would be just great to have one political party control everything, then I can suggest a few totalitarian countries to go live in for a taste of what it would be like. Russia....China....North Korea....Iran....there are quite a few to choose from. I myself have lived in two totalitarian countries, and it was not good. So many people just have no idea what happens to politicians and rulers when there is no mechanism for putting the brakes on where necessary.
Not so. At all. If there are more of them - then they wouldn't have to cheat to "win". They are cheating and have cheated for a very long time. That is the only way they can "win".
Trump exxagerated the value of his assets to secure a loan (as is done literally thousands of times a year by businesses everywhere). So they are trying to set him up to lose everything.
But the prosecution, in their case, values Mar a lago at $18million, even though everyone in the world knew it is worth at least 30 times that. No problem.
End result: NY pursues case to ruin Trump using a legal rationale that hasn't been used in NY state in 100 years.
The corruption and hypocrisy in this whole episode is nauseating. And it's a signal to everyone that we are all potential victims to this kind of lawfare if we don't agree with the authoritarians.
Yes, the issue isn't the specifics of this case, it's simply about equal treatment. That is far more important than any detail in Trump's case which is why the media will focus on the details of Trump's case.
Precisely. Forget the Donald. They are coming after us. Look at the disorder on a daily basis in DC and they spend time locking up protestors - for years?
We need to oppose them every day from school boards, kangaroo sexual assault claims on college campuses, and nonprosecuting DAs. Fight their nonsense, don't assume it will pass
Could the banks repay all their clients their cash deposits. Can the government repay it's obligations to holders of social security savings. Does each instance of misrepresenting ability to repay now come with a potential half billion in fines...
If this happened in Russia it would be plastered all over the front pages of the West, as proof of the corruption of the Russian political system.
Tyrannical regimes prosecute their political opponents. It’s what they do, it’s their hallmark. Witness Stalin’s political show trials in the 1930s when he did precisely that. Letitia James is following in the footsteps of Stalin, Hitler and Putin.
Alex, I know you don't like Donald Trump. That said, if they can do this to Donald Trump, they can do it to anyone who disagrees with them. This is the Attorney General of your state. The only reason they are persecuting Donald Trump with Lawfare is because he is the only one standing in the way of these insane crocked lawyers and you. Give that some thought.
You claim “yes, Trump overstated the value of his assets when he sought these construction loans.”
Appraising assets is an opinion, or a guess, and cannot be stated as a fact, until the asset is actually sold. When negotiating for a loan, you state your opinion, and the bank states their opinion and you come to an agreement.
There is no way, in my opinion, that you can justify this statement. If you think I am wrong, please explain why.
I might say your statement is wrong in that it implies that Alex claimed that Trump said his valuations were "fact". Nothing in the quote you provided is Alex saying that Trump said his valuations were fact.
Trump overstated the value of his assets compared to OTHERS' values. That is what Alex said, IMO.
Also, the "value" upon a sale is only a relevant value to the parties to the sale. And even then, it's not necessarily "fact". It's merely a measure of what the parties to the sale THINK of the value of the item, which is still opinion.
I didn’t imply anything about what Trump said. Alex said “I cannot keep emphasizing this point enough: yes, Trump overstated the value of his assets when he sought these construction loans.”
Alex said what he said, your opinion notwithstanding. I didn’t imply anything. The sale price is the value at the moment of sale. That is a fact.
I didn't say you implied anything about what *Trump* said; I said you implied something about what *Alex* said about what Trump said.
Your implication was that *Alex* claimed that Trump said his valuations were fact, and that that claim of Alex' is unjustified. But Alex' statement was only that Trump overvalued them, NOT that Trump claimed his valuations were "fact".
Also, "The sale price is the value at the moment of sale" ONLY to the parties to the sale, not to ANYone else. That is a fact.
"I never thought the show trial over Donald Trump’s loans would go this far. I never thought New York state would seriously try to enforce the absurd $464 million judgment against Trump for his “crime” of borrowing money and paying it back."
Why on Earth would you think that, Alex? Did you really think that this was some grand dog and pony show? They're out for blood. Just like they're out for blood against anyone who challenges the covid narrative and dares exercise genuine scientific curiosity.
"I assumed the adults would step in once the kids had had their fun putting Trump through the wringer, because the case was so obviously politically motivated"
No. Too many people don't see this as "obviously politically motivated". Therein lies the prolem.
They TRULY believe Trump is the root of all evil. They truly believe any of his supporters need to be removed from society. They REFUSE to acknowledge that a crime was not committed.
As to the "adults" - hasn't covid taught you anything at all? There are no adults. The adults all retired or died. Or have too much personal baggage to "step in" and so, they don't.
"or at least that New York attorney general Letitia James would ensure Trump could appeal."
Why would Letitia do that? She (and her puppet masters, whoever they are) are morally bankrupt and believe they are on some sort of righteous crusade of eliminating Trump's political possibilities. Why would she do anything to ensure her victory wouldn't be secured? Why would she help her enemy?
"And it turns out that James is actively laying the groundwork to seize Trump’s assets. If Trump can’t post the bond by Monday, she may take them."
And why the hell wouldn't she move forward with asset seizure? It's the natural and legal result of a ruling against anyone. Did you really think she'd put a pause on the natural outcome of the case because she's a nice girl (she isn't)? Why is ANYONE surprised by this?
This case should be a dire warning to the entire country - if they can do this to the super wealthy and politically connected, they will do it to anyone. In so many ways it is covid repackaged.
It is naïve to assume any sort of logic or rationality will be applied towards Trump's outcome.
How is it that we are powerless to stop this fiasco . More than half the country sees it for what it is, pure dangerous banana republic tactics and yet ... we can’t alter the course . Even the republicans in power must be in on this law fare. Almost none of them are even talking about it.
Another point is that the statute that Trump allegedly violated is a consumer protection statute. It has only been applied to protect consumers against predatory sales tactics. It had never been used to review fully-performed sophisticated commercial transactions between parties with the ability to protect themselves. Nor, as Gov. Hochul indicated in her attempt to allay the concerns of the business community, will it be used this way again - at least not against anyone not named Trump.
Therefore, James and Engoron are criminals. They, under the color of law, are attempting to steal almost half a billion dollars. They should be disbarred and thrown in jail.
I suspect even the government was suprised somewhere along the way when they realized how much help they would get across the board from the msm, the corrupt judges, DAs, etc. Once they started seeing how effective the machine could be, they took another step and then another. At some point, they realized they could use the msm as cover to get away with anything and they are. If you're willing to do anything to keep power then you'd have no reason to stop now. So if you are surprised now, wait until you see how far they can take this and not just against a former president.
That’s one reason and not a bad one. I’m voting for him because I and the entire civilized world were better off with him as president than the train wreck disaster we have now. If you want the destruction of the country to continue, vote left. If not, we’d better all get to the polls because it will have to be overwhelming to overcome the fraud from the left.
Good for you, Alex. I guess the problem I had with some of your posts (was not that you disliked Trump's personality) was you didn't take into consideration that your opinions were being formed by a lying media out to get him. Much of what the demonizing they did of him was done to you, and you didn't seem to get that. He's not perfect, but he is also no worse, and much better, than the people in charge and the Democrat machine in this country. I do like Kennedy, but one of them better win. Or we are in desperate trouble here.
Of course, he did promote the vaccine but did NOT MANDATE it. I think it's great he pushed a drug forward that might help, nothing really wrong with that in an emergency, but then you have to have informed consent and it should have been offered to just high risk people. I don't blame him for trying that when we had no idea what was happening. I blame Biden for mandating it.
But I have been in real estate (and writing and teaching at university level) all my life. Whenever we get a loan, we go in and they what our apartments are worth. We have no idea so we estimate high --real estate is complicated, there are cap rates and what would actually work to keep running them and then there are land opportunities in good areas, so I am sure at times we might have estimated them as much as a million dollars higher! (and Trump had reason to believe his stuff would have "star quality worth." At any rate, everybody does this. The banks do their own appraisals and loan money accordingly. This is standard practice. No victims. Our banks didn't throw us in jail for guessing.
The reason we should support Trump and perhaps not Kennedy is we have to say no to what they've done to Trump and to you and to many others. I'm sure that's why he is getting the support he is.
Am I mistaken or (1) Was Deutsche Bank not the lead bank in the consortium? (2) Did Deutsche Bank not say it made its own analysis of any risks in the loan agreement with Trump (3) Was Deutsche Bank not entirely satisfied with the money it made under the agreement?
I work in the banking industry and have dealt with many people just like Trump. They all put blue sky in their financial statements. But you know what the financial statements is the owners estimate of what his assets are worth. It’s not the banks estimate it’s not the accountant estimate it’s not the lawyer estimate it’s nobody’s estimate except the owners. The bank does their own analysis things like does he actually own what he claims. Yes that can be documented and what do we think those assets are worth if they had to be sold We then make our decision based upon our own analysis of all of those facts. Fraud would be claiming he owns assets that he doesn’t actually own. Fraud isn’t saying I think property X is worth 10 million and the banker thinks it’s only 7 million. The decision is wrong and the judge should be disbarred for making it. The punishment violates the 8 th amendment against excessive fines. The fact that no court in NY hasn’t step up and stopped this is terrifying.
Yes! So how is Trump's evaluation/alleged exaggeration even remotely relevant when the bank made and relied upon its own evaluation (as I'm sure it was required from a regulatory standpoint to do)?? I keep hearing the argument that Trump secured a better loan rate for himself by his alleged misrepresentations AND that this harmed the public because others were deprived of loans at an equivalent rate (only so much in proceeds available at that rate, I suppose is the argument). But again it would seem that the rate Trump got was determined by the bank's valuation, not Trump's. So now we have partisan AGs campaigning on punishing political enemies and roaming their jurisdictions for lies, old and new, that they can use to accomplish that end. No one is safe. You might not be wealthy, campaigning for public office or otherwise look like a potential target. But if you say something that a powerful person doesn't like, and if that powerful person prevails upon his or her government cronies to regard your statements as false, misleading or otherwise harmful, look out.
The rate is driven by the banks desire for the business and it’s perception of the overall risk At the level someone like Trump plays at they can almost dictate the rate to the bank as there will be many other lenders willing to do the deal so Trump can get the banks to actually bid for the loan. Again the judge wrongly decided the case based upon the facts just as the AG wrongly prosecuted based upon the facts. That no appellate court will stand up and stop this miscarriage of justice is the scary part.
And the everyday Joe is believing what they are hearing. Does anyone know what the loan terms were? Did Trump's organization say their asset was worth $300M, the bank's loan officers, based on appraisal, think it is only worth $280M. But what if he was asking for a loan of $100M for improvements? At that point, his organization's valuation is not relevant as he may have been only asking for a 1/3 of the bank assessed value of the assets. I have not read through any of the court documents (if NY State hasn't buried them somewhere) so no one really knows, unless they sat in that courtroom for the entire trial. Obfuscating the evidence so the public does not have access to the details of these loan agreements makes it easy for the judges to tell their own story and make up law to suit their political purposes..
I have no idea of the loan terms and it appears that the judge didn’t care either. Trump was guilty and that is that.
"I have no idea..." Clearly.
@ reality speaks
You are being sarcastic, right?
Yes
and yet on a recent breaking points, Crystal Ball said that this happens to ordinary people all the time- their salaries are garnished because they failed to pay their taxes or their assets are seized because they skipped their child support payments. she entirely missed the point that Trump paid off the loans. the loan with interest was satisfied. there was NO crime.
i am amazed at some of the facebook memes posted by people i actually know who i used to think, pre-covid, were fairly intelligent. "he's supposed to be a multi-billionaire but he can't come up with a measly 1/2 billion?" come on! surely these people know the difference between net worth and actual cash on hand in the bank!! wasn't that always the joke about royalty? that they never had any real money to pay their tailors? or that scene in The American President where Andrew Shepherd can't buy flowers for Sydney Wade because his personal credit cards are locked up?
on paper, i'm worth much more than i have in the bank. sure, i suppose if i had to raise 400 grand, i could sell the house i live in for what i paid for it in 2002- $400,000. never mind that it's currently "worth" around $2 million. it doesn't have any more bedrooms or square footage than it did in 2002. but then, where would i live? where would i store my furniture?
this crazy AG is so hell bent on destroying Trump that she's willing to take NY down with him. why would anyone ever risk doing business there again? between the insane governor wanting to quarantine you without due process if you so much as sneeze and the AG willing to break any law or make some up to get Trump on any charge or no charge, all the illegal (yes, i used the word) migrants flooding the city, the museums apologizing for their "appropriated" or dead white guy art, the broadway shows pandering to the lowest possible audiences and marshall law on the subways, there is no point to living there any longer.
so glad i left in 2018!
I also worked in the lending industry. No bank bases its decision to secure a loan with assets whose value is determined by the applicant. Trump was singled out because he's a threat to the corrupt establishment, not because any sane person actually thinks this is a crime.
I do not know one person who does not over state or over value personal or business assets. Including myself.
I will never support another Democrat as long as I live. They have become the people that we were warned about. Commo-fascist
As Dan Bongino says “republicans aren’t necessarily the solution to your problems, but democrats are definitely the cause of all your problems”. We’re kind of screwed but will definitely lose EVERYTHING if the democrats maintain power. And I don’t believe the actual tyrants are going to let go of power.
I wouldn't use the word ALL. Your biggest problem could be staring back at you in the mirror every morning as you brush your teeth.
I can handle that problem just fine. The tyrants are another issue.
How did Joe Biden get inside my mirror?
Fund Candidates not systems 😂
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but about 93% of the Republicans are the people you were warned about too.
What should I do Rob? Because you pointing out the obvious doesn’t do much
Well I guess I respectfully disagree that it's obvious to enough people. It seems like most people that disagree with what the Democrats are doing seem to think that while the Republicans are not doing us any favors, they aren't as bad as the Democrats. In my opinion, if you look at the biggest problems facing our country, most of the Republicans are equally to blame. Even worse, the Republicans don't have to take responsibility when they can also pretend that the Democrats are doing it all. All they have to do is make a cute quote at a congressional hearing and they get a pass. As to what we should do..
I'm not smart enough to know many of the answers, but I do think we start by not giving the majority of the Republicans a pass by making them think we believe they are better than the Democrats. As long as they can convince most conservatives that the Democrats are the bad guys, they can keep quietly destroying the country with no accountability.
How many cases of Republicans running a show trial can you cite? Have they shut someone’s business down and stolen 500 million dollars with no victim? New York City is run by leftists, what is any Republican who happens to do business supposed to do, speak up and have it done to them? In Georgia his staff and lawyers are under an indictment for racketeering? Would you be willing to represent him? Perhaps get a bogus indictment just for representing your client in court. People need to wake the fuck up. This is banana republic, fascist shit
You think Republicans aren't (quietly) supporting or even participating in just about everything on your list? How many years have Republicans had enough power to make the right decisions to prevent virtually everything on your list from happening? Republicans were front and center in all of the Covid overreach, at least equally responsbile for big tech destroying the country, deserve significant blame for Jan 6 outcome, deserve significant blame for what is happening to Trump, responsible for much of the deficit, at least equally responsible for the wars, equally responsibile for big pharma corruption, equally responsible for companies llike Blackrock and Vanguard destroying the country, and on and on. At some point we do need to wake up and realize who needs enemies with friends like these.
Dude I’m not even a Republican, but yeah just ignore basically everything I wrote. This is useless
I think simply put, the Republicans could stop this in a minute (by screaming at the top of their lungs) but all you hear is crickets.
They’re useless cowards but in the grand scheme of things, what else do we do?
The graft and corruption in our political elites is so deep and pervasive that a single election will not solve it, and we can't expect it to. However, one thing is clear: The lawless Democrats must first be voted out as soon as possible so they can't continue with their current America-destroying agenda. Next, hopefully enough people are now aware of what has been going on that they will pay close attention and systematically vote out people who are part of all this...both parties included. It will be a slow process and can't be done all at once. And we the public cannot become complacent again and ignore what our political class is doing. The last few years have seen the curtain pulled back and we can't un-see what we have seen. Increasingly these people both elected and unelected have to be held accountable, if by nothing else, by voting them out of office over and over. And by voting in people who will get rid of the unelected deep state players.
As a person who lives in the one party state of California, I can attest that this is NOT a good situation. You absolutely must must have opposition and discussion of ideas. Americans need to be strategic about their votes, and sometimes need to hold their noses and vote for someone they don't completely like in order to restore more balance of power. The presidency and both houses of Congress simply should not be controlled by a single party. There needs to be at least ONE branch of Congress with the ability to apply brakes here and there. I guarantee that Americans would not like a one party country to match what we have in California. And if you do think it would be just great to have one political party control everything, then I can suggest a few totalitarian countries to go live in for a taste of what it would be like. Russia....China....North Korea....Iran....there are quite a few to choose from. I myself have lived in two totalitarian countries, and it was not good. So many people just have no idea what happens to politicians and rulers when there is no mechanism for putting the brakes on where necessary.
The best thing anyone can do right now is support Alex Berenson he is the only one who can move this country forward with God's help.
I do, I’m a paid supporter
Oh please. The ONLY one. Just no.
I have to mention that Republicans have also become those people. Isn't there anyone on the Republican side that can do anything?
They have proven to be cowards, there really isn’t a debate.
sometimes i feel like these demon-worshipping pedophiles just aren't entering politics for the right reasons
Sadly I think there are more of them than us and they are much better organized. It’s making it impossible for us to win anymore.
Not so. At all. If there are more of them - then they wouldn't have to cheat to "win". They are cheating and have cheated for a very long time. That is the only way they can "win".
Trump exxagerated the value of his assets to secure a loan (as is done literally thousands of times a year by businesses everywhere). So they are trying to set him up to lose everything.
But the prosecution, in their case, values Mar a lago at $18million, even though everyone in the world knew it is worth at least 30 times that. No problem.
End result: NY pursues case to ruin Trump using a legal rationale that hasn't been used in NY state in 100 years.
The corruption and hypocrisy in this whole episode is nauseating. And it's a signal to everyone that we are all potential victims to this kind of lawfare if we don't agree with the authoritarians.
Yes, the issue isn't the specifics of this case, it's simply about equal treatment. That is far more important than any detail in Trump's case which is why the media will focus on the details of Trump's case.
Precisely. Forget the Donald. They are coming after us. Look at the disorder on a daily basis in DC and they spend time locking up protestors - for years?
We need to oppose them every day from school boards, kangaroo sexual assault claims on college campuses, and nonprosecuting DAs. Fight their nonsense, don't assume it will pass
@ Forheremenaremen
Ahhhh hold it. I think you mean ". . . . we are all potential victims to this kind of lawfare if we don't REMOVE the authoritarians."
Let's try not to roll over so fast.
Remind me again who the fascist dictator is. It's not Trump.
Could the banks repay all their clients their cash deposits. Can the government repay it's obligations to holders of social security savings. Does each instance of misrepresenting ability to repay now come with a potential half billion in fines...
If this happened in Russia it would be plastered all over the front pages of the West, as proof of the corruption of the Russian political system.
Tyrannical regimes prosecute their political opponents. It’s what they do, it’s their hallmark. Witness Stalin’s political show trials in the 1930s when he did precisely that. Letitia James is following in the footsteps of Stalin, Hitler and Putin.
Which is why she should be disbarred and jailed.
Alex, I know you don't like Donald Trump. That said, if they can do this to Donald Trump, they can do it to anyone who disagrees with them. This is the Attorney General of your state. The only reason they are persecuting Donald Trump with Lawfare is because he is the only one standing in the way of these insane crocked lawyers and you. Give that some thought.
more to the point - alex is on their "enemies list" too.
You claim “yes, Trump overstated the value of his assets when he sought these construction loans.”
Appraising assets is an opinion, or a guess, and cannot be stated as a fact, until the asset is actually sold. When negotiating for a loan, you state your opinion, and the bank states their opinion and you come to an agreement.
There is no way, in my opinion, that you can justify this statement. If you think I am wrong, please explain why.
My CPA husband totally agrees with you.
I might say your statement is wrong in that it implies that Alex claimed that Trump said his valuations were "fact". Nothing in the quote you provided is Alex saying that Trump said his valuations were fact.
Trump overstated the value of his assets compared to OTHERS' values. That is what Alex said, IMO.
Also, the "value" upon a sale is only a relevant value to the parties to the sale. And even then, it's not necessarily "fact". It's merely a measure of what the parties to the sale THINK of the value of the item, which is still opinion.
I didn’t imply anything about what Trump said. Alex said “I cannot keep emphasizing this point enough: yes, Trump overstated the value of his assets when he sought these construction loans.”
Alex said what he said, your opinion notwithstanding. I didn’t imply anything. The sale price is the value at the moment of sale. That is a fact.
I didn't say you implied anything about what *Trump* said; I said you implied something about what *Alex* said about what Trump said.
Your implication was that *Alex* claimed that Trump said his valuations were fact, and that that claim of Alex' is unjustified. But Alex' statement was only that Trump overvalued them, NOT that Trump claimed his valuations were "fact".
Also, "The sale price is the value at the moment of sale" ONLY to the parties to the sale, not to ANYone else. That is a fact.
"I never thought the show trial over Donald Trump’s loans would go this far. I never thought New York state would seriously try to enforce the absurd $464 million judgment against Trump for his “crime” of borrowing money and paying it back."
Why on Earth would you think that, Alex? Did you really think that this was some grand dog and pony show? They're out for blood. Just like they're out for blood against anyone who challenges the covid narrative and dares exercise genuine scientific curiosity.
"I assumed the adults would step in once the kids had had their fun putting Trump through the wringer, because the case was so obviously politically motivated"
No. Too many people don't see this as "obviously politically motivated". Therein lies the prolem.
They TRULY believe Trump is the root of all evil. They truly believe any of his supporters need to be removed from society. They REFUSE to acknowledge that a crime was not committed.
As to the "adults" - hasn't covid taught you anything at all? There are no adults. The adults all retired or died. Or have too much personal baggage to "step in" and so, they don't.
"or at least that New York attorney general Letitia James would ensure Trump could appeal."
Why would Letitia do that? She (and her puppet masters, whoever they are) are morally bankrupt and believe they are on some sort of righteous crusade of eliminating Trump's political possibilities. Why would she do anything to ensure her victory wouldn't be secured? Why would she help her enemy?
"And it turns out that James is actively laying the groundwork to seize Trump’s assets. If Trump can’t post the bond by Monday, she may take them."
And why the hell wouldn't she move forward with asset seizure? It's the natural and legal result of a ruling against anyone. Did you really think she'd put a pause on the natural outcome of the case because she's a nice girl (she isn't)? Why is ANYONE surprised by this?
This case should be a dire warning to the entire country - if they can do this to the super wealthy and politically connected, they will do it to anyone. In so many ways it is covid repackaged.
It is naïve to assume any sort of logic or rationality will be applied towards Trump's outcome.
How is it that we are powerless to stop this fiasco . More than half the country sees it for what it is, pure dangerous banana republic tactics and yet ... we can’t alter the course . Even the republicans in power must be in on this law fare. Almost none of them are even talking about it.
And what says they would not go after some people, say Alex for example, for trying to expose the truth?
Absolutely - anyone they see a potential "win" for whatever interest they're prostituting themselves for - regardless of rationale.
Based on this case, it is only a matter of time some AG goes after Elon for all his exaggerations. We are or already have become a Banana Republic.
We’re THERE NOW.
very good point
I think Elon has more liabilities than Trump, honestly - in his case, they might be able to find an actual crime committed.
Like the fraud that electric cars are actually better for the environment and do not require coal energy to produce. WOW! Yeah.
Here’s the elephant in the NY room: Letitia James campaigned on this. She was elected by the voters. Kinda’ like Biden’s border. He promised too.
The real problem and the real question is how many voters voted?
How many fake harv:ested ballots and the notorious number of voters who don't vote
Another point is that the statute that Trump allegedly violated is a consumer protection statute. It has only been applied to protect consumers against predatory sales tactics. It had never been used to review fully-performed sophisticated commercial transactions between parties with the ability to protect themselves. Nor, as Gov. Hochul indicated in her attempt to allay the concerns of the business community, will it be used this way again - at least not against anyone not named Trump.
Therefore, James and Engoron are criminals. They, under the color of law, are attempting to steal almost half a billion dollars. They should be disbarred and thrown in jail.
Great points. Can you post it on X and we can try to make it go viral?
Why aren’t Trump’s lawyers articulating this? Hochul has the power to pardon him and stop this mockery of the legal system in NYC
Hochul is a left wing Democrat and approves of James’ and Engoron’s abuse of their positions.
Accessory after the fact?
I suspect even the government was suprised somewhere along the way when they realized how much help they would get across the board from the msm, the corrupt judges, DAs, etc. Once they started seeing how effective the machine could be, they took another step and then another. At some point, they realized they could use the msm as cover to get away with anything and they are. If you're willing to do anything to keep power then you'd have no reason to stop now. So if you are surprised now, wait until you see how far they can take this and not just against a former president.
While Trump my not be the best candidate in the world, I’m voting for him as a big FU to the media and the system.
That’s one reason and not a bad one. I’m voting for him because I and the entire civilized world were better off with him as president than the train wreck disaster we have now. If you want the destruction of the country to continue, vote left. If not, we’d better all get to the polls because it will have to be overwhelming to overcome the fraud from the left.
Good for you, Alex. I guess the problem I had with some of your posts (was not that you disliked Trump's personality) was you didn't take into consideration that your opinions were being formed by a lying media out to get him. Much of what the demonizing they did of him was done to you, and you didn't seem to get that. He's not perfect, but he is also no worse, and much better, than the people in charge and the Democrat machine in this country. I do like Kennedy, but one of them better win. Or we are in desperate trouble here.
Of course, he did promote the vaccine but did NOT MANDATE it. I think it's great he pushed a drug forward that might help, nothing really wrong with that in an emergency, but then you have to have informed consent and it should have been offered to just high risk people. I don't blame him for trying that when we had no idea what was happening. I blame Biden for mandating it.
But I have been in real estate (and writing and teaching at university level) all my life. Whenever we get a loan, we go in and they what our apartments are worth. We have no idea so we estimate high --real estate is complicated, there are cap rates and what would actually work to keep running them and then there are land opportunities in good areas, so I am sure at times we might have estimated them as much as a million dollars higher! (and Trump had reason to believe his stuff would have "star quality worth." At any rate, everybody does this. The banks do their own appraisals and loan money accordingly. This is standard practice. No victims. Our banks didn't throw us in jail for guessing.
The reason we should support Trump and perhaps not Kennedy is we have to say no to what they've done to Trump and to you and to many others. I'm sure that's why he is getting the support he is.
Am I mistaken or (1) Was Deutsche Bank not the lead bank in the consortium? (2) Did Deutsche Bank not say it made its own analysis of any risks in the loan agreement with Trump (3) Was Deutsche Bank not entirely satisfied with the money it made under the agreement?
Yes, yes, and yes. So what?